Comments on: The SAH vs. working parent debate http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/ Bringing together parents from around the world Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:48:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Rachel http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-9859 Rachel Wed, 23 Jun 2010 01:35:08 +0000 http://www.mamasworldwide.com/?p=603#comment-9859 As far as the "losing touch with reality" bit, I want to know who's reality? Really, what is reality? A quick google search says: "all of your experiences that determine how things appear to you". So how could a SAHP be out of touch with reality? As far as the “losing touch with reality” bit, I want to know who’s reality? Really, what is reality? A quick google search says: “all of your experiences that determine how things appear to you”. So how could a SAHP be out of touch with reality?

]]> By: Sonic http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-9518 Sonic Fri, 28 May 2010 08:43:40 +0000 http://www.mamasworldwide.com/?p=603#comment-9518 Well I have experience of being a full time working parent, part time working parent and finally a non working parent. I hated working full time and having so little time with the kids. Ok I had more money but uit wasn't worth it. Part time was better but I kept getting pressurised to spend more time at work. In the end I gave up altogether and I can honestly say that I have never regretted it for a nano second. I gave up quite a good salary and a career but what I have now is far more satisfying and it nakes me and my four children happier. Yes I do feel lonely and isolated at times but I would rather have that than the angst of being away from my children. I can be there for everything they do. I am not saying this is what everyone should do, its right for me though. But I do think that overall we do spend too much time working and not enough with our families. Well I have experience of being a full time working parent, part time working parent and finally a non working parent.
I hated working full time and having so little time with the kids. Ok I had more money but uit wasn’t worth it. Part time was better but I kept getting pressurised to spend more time at work.
In the end I gave up altogether and I can honestly say that I have never regretted it for a nano second.
I gave up quite a good salary and a career but what I have now is far more satisfying and it nakes me and my four children happier.
Yes I do feel lonely and isolated at times but I would rather have that than the angst of being away from my children. I can be there for everything they do.
I am not saying this is what everyone should do, its right for me though. But I do think that overall we do spend too much time working and not enough with our families.

]]> By: Rachael http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-2356 Rachael Thu, 21 May 2009 03:52:52 +0000 http://www.mamasworldwide.com/?p=603#comment-2356 I belong to a Mother's Club in my town, and it has a mix of parents who stay home vs. do not. Its a very respectful group in terms of choices that work for your family. I work outside the home, and I know that its far easier to do that (less work!) than to stay at home. And, being a mom is the most important jobs we will have. So, I never quite understood the criticisms lobbed at SAHMs and some others lobbed at working moms. My kids are in the hands of childcare professionals who are great and have taught me lots about parenting and approaches. So, the "mommy wars" is a bit frustrating when instead we should be supporting one another. We have more in common than not. The biggest struggle I think all moms face is getting personal time -- away from kids and spouse. Racing through the grocery store alone hardly counts as being restorative down time. Part of my lack of restorative downtime is my own guilt or choosing and my taking care of everyone (except myself). These things are worth more discussion. I belong to a Mother’s Club in my town, and it has a mix of parents who stay home vs. do not. Its a very respectful group in terms of choices that work for your family. I work outside the home, and I know that its far easier to do that (less work!) than to stay at home. And, being a mom is the most important jobs we will have. So, I never quite understood the criticisms lobbed at SAHMs and some others lobbed at working moms. My kids are in the hands of childcare professionals who are great and have taught me lots about parenting and approaches. So, the “mommy wars” is a bit frustrating when instead we should be supporting one another.

We have more in common than not. The biggest struggle I think all moms face is getting personal time — away from kids and spouse. Racing through the grocery store alone hardly counts as being restorative down time. Part of my lack of restorative downtime is my own guilt or choosing and my taking care of everyone (except myself). These things are worth more discussion.

]]> By: Annie @ PhD in Parenting http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-2099 Annie @ PhD in Parenting Tue, 12 May 2009 14:25:10 +0000 http://www.mamasworldwide.com/?p=603#comment-2099 @ Feminist Breeder: I think you can wait on your kids hand and foot without necessarily being permissive. You may have rules, use punishments, etc. but still never teach them to do things on their own. That said, I agree that being permissive is not a good approach. I wrote about this in my post on my Discipline Spectrum: http://www.phdinparenting.com/2008/10/20/my-discipline-spectrum/ @ Feminist Breeder: I think you can wait on your kids hand and foot without necessarily being permissive. You may have rules, use punishments, etc. but still never teach them to do things on their own.

That said, I agree that being permissive is not a good approach. I wrote about this in my post on my Discipline Spectrum:

http://www.phdinparenting.com/2008/10/20/my-discipline-spectrum/

]]> By: TheFeministBreeder http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-2098 TheFeministBreeder Tue, 12 May 2009 14:12:07 +0000 http://www.mamasworldwide.com/?p=603#comment-2098 @ PhD in Parenting You're referring to the "Permissive" style of parenting, which has been proven among child psychologists to not usually be the most effective way. Communications and Child Development experts agree that doing everything for a child, and permitted any type of behavior, often leads to low-self esteem and social issues. Being waited on hand and foot is thought of to be a very discouraging action to a child. It tells them that you don't trust them to do it themselves, and that you don't believe they are capable. I had a classmate recently who admitted to practicing "Permissive" parenting, and she now has two 21 year old adult twins who won't get a job, go to school, or even pick up their own socks. And she wonders how they can possibly be so lazy and unmotivated. Well.... probably because their whole childhood she convinced them that they couldn't do anything for themselves, so why bother? There are two other types of parenting/management styles: Autocratic (a dictatorship - not very healthy either) and Democratic. Our house practices the democratic style - and I think that both the WOHMs and the SAHMs I know each do something very similar. I think either side could be Permissive or Autocratic, and like you said, it doesn't really matter whether a parent goes to work or stays home, it's about how you parent when you're there. @ PhD in Parenting

You’re referring to the “Permissive” style of parenting, which has been proven among child psychologists to not usually be the most effective way. Communications and Child Development experts agree that doing everything for a child, and permitted any type of behavior, often leads to low-self esteem and social issues. Being waited on hand and foot is thought of to be a very discouraging action to a child. It tells them that you don’t trust them to do it themselves, and that you don’t believe they are capable. I had a classmate recently who admitted to practicing “Permissive” parenting, and she now has two 21 year old adult twins who won’t get a job, go to school, or even pick up their own socks. And she wonders how they can possibly be so lazy and unmotivated. Well…. probably because their whole childhood she convinced them that they couldn’t do anything for themselves, so why bother?

There are two other types of parenting/management styles: Autocratic (a dictatorship - not very healthy either) and Democratic. Our house practices the democratic style - and I think that both the WOHMs and the SAHMs I know each do something very similar. I think either side could be Permissive or Autocratic, and like you said, it doesn’t really matter whether a parent goes to work or stays home, it’s about how you parent when you’re there.

]]> By: Annie @ PhD in Parenting http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-2096 Annie @ PhD in Parenting Tue, 12 May 2009 13:14:33 +0000 http://www.mamasworldwide.com/?p=603#comment-2096 I think a big part of the problem is the stereotypes on either side of the debate. Each SAHP, each WAHP, each WOHP does things differently. The argument about kids being spoiled was perhaps the one that spoke to me the most. Not because it is true, but because it can be true. I think that all parents need to be careful to teach their children rather than waiting on them hand and foot. I don't think it is possible to spoil a baby or a child with too much love and affection, but you can spoil them by continuing to do things for them that they should be able to do on their own. Sometimes it takes more time to teach a child something than to just do it for them, but I think it is a worthwhile investment in the end. I think a big part of the problem is the stereotypes on either side of the debate. Each SAHP, each WAHP, each WOHP does things differently.

The argument about kids being spoiled was perhaps the one that spoke to me the most. Not because it is true, but because it can be true. I think that all parents need to be careful to teach their children rather than waiting on them hand and foot. I don’t think it is possible to spoil a baby or a child with too much love and affection, but you can spoil them by continuing to do things for them that they should be able to do on their own. Sometimes it takes more time to teach a child something than to just do it for them, but I think it is a worthwhile investment in the end.

]]> By: Christina | AmiExpat http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-2084 Christina | AmiExpat Tue, 12 May 2009 05:06:56 +0000 http://www.mamasworldwide.com/?p=603#comment-2084 Sometimes I find it sad that the US is so money-based. When I watch CNN, all the major stories come with a "how will this affect the economy" commentary. And now that I think about it, I think I have gotten some comments from friends in the US about staying at home here, like, "It's nice that you live in Germany where you can do that." Sometimes I find it sad that the US is so money-based. When I watch CNN, all the major stories come with a “how will this affect the economy” commentary. And now that I think about it, I think I have gotten some comments from friends in the US about staying at home here, like, “It’s nice that you live in Germany where you can do that.”

]]> By: Maria http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-2074 Maria Mon, 11 May 2009 21:03:21 +0000 http://www.mamasworldwide.com/?p=603#comment-2074 My experience was that there is a big difference between Germany and the US while I was staying home-- even while I was in Germany. With my German friends, I never felt a need to justify why I was not working. On the other hand, during the same time frame, I was constantly having to justify my not-working to US friends/family/acquaintances, etc. Once I was back in the US, the intensity of the questioning increased-- when will I go back to work, why "waste" my education-- many of the bullets you posted. It was my experience (is my experience) that the Germans are much more open to the idea of delaying the return to the workforce and the government supports that situation. In the US, the maternity leave policy is short, and women are rushed back to the workforce as though the only way to be a "productive" member of society is to earn a dollar. The entire question and system is different-- the policy a reflection of the culture, in my opinion. Just my two cents... My experience was that there is a big difference between Germany and the US while I was staying home— even while I was in Germany. With my German friends, I never felt a need to justify why I was not working. On the other hand, during the same time frame, I was constantly having to justify my not-working to US friends/family/acquaintances, etc. Once I was back in the US, the intensity of the questioning increased— when will I go back to work, why “waste” my education— many of the bullets you posted.

It was my experience (is my experience) that the Germans are much more open to the idea of delaying the return to the workforce and the government supports that situation. In the US, the maternity leave policy is short, and women are rushed back to the workforce as though the only way to be a “productive” member of society is to earn a dollar. The entire question and system is different— the policy a reflection of the culture, in my opinion.

Just my two cents…

]]> By: Christina | AmiExpat http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-2073 Christina | AmiExpat Mon, 11 May 2009 20:52:01 +0000 http://www.mamasworldwide.com/?p=603#comment-2073 @maria: Just wondering, since you've lived in both as a parent, do you feel there is a big difference in attitudes towards staying home vs. working between Germany and the US? @TheFeministBreeder: Thanks for sharing your story. That's the thing about judging people, we don't usually know their backstory. We don't know all their experiences and the considerations that go into shaping the decisions they make. And that "friend" was absolutely not a friend. Friends are supportive and don't spout nonsense like that. Jessica is absolutely right, it's about the quality of the time spent together with your child, not the quantity. There were several commenters on the AFM post stating that they had SAHMs and have rocky relationships with their moms. My mom worked, and she totally didn't have to, she just wanted to, and I love her. I can't imagine her staying home would have made any difference in our relationship. Actually, I think she would have been miserable staying home and it would have negatively affected our relationship, so I'm happy she worked! @jessica: I think it often has to do with being insecure in their own decisions. I know that when the occasional judgmental thought crosses my mind, and I really examine where that thought is coming from, it's often rooted in some doubt I have about myself. @sam: I think we should all be able to share our opinions when it's done in a constructive manner, but I think if someone has an opinion that is just hurtful, like TheFeministBreeder's "friend," maybe those opinions should just be kept to oneself ;-) @maria: Just wondering, since you’ve lived in both as a parent, do you feel there is a big difference in attitudes towards staying home vs. working between Germany and the US?

@TheFeministBreeder: Thanks for sharing your story. That’s the thing about judging people, we don’t usually know their backstory. We don’t know all their experiences and the considerations that go into shaping the decisions they make.

And that “friend” was absolutely not a friend. Friends are supportive and don’t spout nonsense like that. Jessica is absolutely right, it’s about the quality of the time spent together with your child, not the quantity. There were several commenters on the AFM post stating that they had SAHMs and have rocky relationships with their moms. My mom worked, and she totally didn’t have to, she just wanted to, and I love her. I can’t imagine her staying home would have made any difference in our relationship. Actually, I think she would have been miserable staying home and it would have negatively affected our relationship, so I’m happy she worked!

@jessica: I think it often has to do with being insecure in their own decisions. I know that when the occasional judgmental thought crosses my mind, and I really examine where that thought is coming from, it’s often rooted in some doubt I have about myself.

@sam: I think we should all be able to share our opinions when it’s done in a constructive manner, but I think if someone has an opinion that is just hurtful, like TheFeministBreeder’s “friend,” maybe those opinions should just be kept to oneself ;-)

]]> By: Sam @babyREADY http://www.mamasworldwide.com/2009/05/10/the-sah-vs-working-parent-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-2071 Sam @babyREADY Mon, 11 May 2009 20:46:17 +0000 http://www.mamasworldwide.com/?p=603#comment-2071 Wow! I am a SAHM. I am a WAHM. AND I homeschool my children. I agree with @FeministBreeder that I hope what my children will see (and my children are 11 and 8 so are old enough to let me know what they think) me being happy with what I do, take pride in me as I take pride in myself and want that for themselves and their life partners. Everyone has an opinion. Everyone is welcome to voice their opinion. Everyone should expect to receive an opinion back and be as gracious receiving said opinion as the person they "opinionated" to! Just my .02 Wow! I am a SAHM. I am a WAHM. AND I homeschool my children. I agree with @FeministBreeder that I hope what my children will see (and my children are 11 and 8 so are old enough to let me know what they think) me being happy with what I do, take pride in me as I take pride in myself and want that for themselves and their life partners.
Everyone has an opinion. Everyone is welcome to voice their opinion. Everyone should expect to receive an opinion back and be as gracious receiving said opinion as the person they “opinionated” to!
Just my .02

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